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Found this on tumblr..... and I find it incredibly relevant. Especially since I've been preaching that subject to a few others recently, myself. Though this illustrates it perfectly.

I also find it amusing and painfully true, at the mention of the 'DeviantArt mentality'.
If you are looking to make honest money with honest, art/writing work.. don't undersell yourself just because some kids that only get an allowance from their parents think its too much. (And don't get me wrong. I was that myself for a long while. Your perception of money's worth changes -allot- as you grow up though.. so don't tell someone something isnt worth it just because you see something like 100$ as allot.. it is to a younger person with no bills. To me though? that's not even 1/4th of my monthly car payment.. )

Most people trying to make decent money by putting more than decent effort into their work have grownup stuff to pay for.. And better ways to make money than wasting time for even less.
of course that means, for the most part we wont sell at all because a majority of the buyer base is people just like stated above... but eh.. what you gunna do.

(pardon some rough tumblr language 8'D..)

Anonymous asked: $100 is a lot of money for a single page.







how much is a loaf of bread? hm? $3? $5? 

At my local grocery store, bread is about $4.50 for a decent size italian loaf. If I make $7.25 and hour, that means I’d have to work 37 and a half minutes for a Loaf of bread.

but hey, that’s not so bad right? Work two hours and you’ll have a sandwich, eh?

Oh hey, turns out I also need toilet paper, rice, chicken, some veggies, a can of soup, and some cereal. (to name a few basic groceries one might need on a budget) we’ll round those things down to $25 just to make the math easier.

at $7.25 an hour I’ll have to work about 3 and a half hours for basic groceries.

That doesn’t include bills or gas or all the other groceries I need, That’s ONE quick trip to the store and I already have to work half a day just for that.

You don’t understand Anon, my pages could take HOURS if not DAYS. Between the sketching, inking, colouring, lettering, and finishing it’s taken at least a full two day’s work if not longer for each page.

I have a job that pays me beans, I cannot afford to post more pages a week without compensation. I literally cannot afford to do that. Not to mention the idea that art is only worth minimum wage cheapens the amount of work and effort that goes into producing it. I should be making WELL ABOVE minimum wage for my art via page count and commissions but it’s this damn “deviant art” mindset that makes people feel like they’re being swindled for paying a livable wage to artists. It’s rude and childish and I ask that you please stop considering artists as less worthy of affording a normal life.

You can either pay me what I ask for what you want or stop complaining about what I already give you for free.


I cannot fucking stand people who tell illustrators that something they produce is too expensive.

Yall motherfuckers want cheap? Go get some paper, get a fucking pencil and then draw it your motherfucking selves because nobody freelancing on the internet who hasn’t even half made it in the illustration world is charging you ANYTHING close to industry pricing even when some of us are as good if not better. Why? Because of people like Anon. Your name must be out there and known to charge anything close to what your time and skill is worth. Yet still? You are paying for my effort, my time, my blood, sweat and tears and a lifetime of learning my trade.

A cheap page for yo ass is a piece of paper I haven’t touched yet.


(As a freelancer I cannot staaaaaaaaaaaaaand people who pull this dogshit.)

$100 is pretty cheap for a page.

Basic math, for Anon up there: Break that $100 down into an hourly rate. Factor in materials. Factor in skill and schooling and experience. Bear in mind that a page rate *at all* means there’s a good chance it’s work-for-hire, which means that $100 a page might be all the artist gets, ever.

And then, when you’ve done that math, think about what that means in terms of how few comics artists make a living hourly wage.

Want a pro artist, anon? Pay them like a fucking pro.

I’d like to add the a professional of any stripe has the duty to themselves, and the right to charge a rate based on his skill level and the work he or she puts in.

dammit.. my journal skin ruins the tiers *PIF* so for this one only, I'll put to default.. *looks at her ruined front page* QQQQQ
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KooriBunny Featured By Owner Mar 9, 2014
Wow.. Well.. Applies to the music industry as well.. xD -waves hi-
furesiya Featured By Owner Mar 9, 2014
:icontouchplz: *touches the bunny*
Yeah >3< I can imagine anything in the creative world suffers from this mentality oTL 
therealAmia-chan Featured By Owner Mar 8, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
This is quite true. Sad, but true that we act like this on here. I know I'm not the most skilled artist, but it bothers me when people argue with you about prices and such. I mean why work on something for like $5 when the buyer gets all whiny because they "Saw Someone Else" selling stuff for a buck each? In all fairness, we sometimes get caught up in excitement in regards to various things that pique our interests and say or do something stupid when we should know better. No one is made of stone, right? Yet this is no excuse for low balling someone who just put their precious heart and time and effort into something for you.
furesiya Featured By Owner Mar 9, 2014
Yeah. Exactly.
I don't fault people for trying to look for deals.. but they should never go at it with the attitude that its either right or wrong based on their opinion.
Its ok to ask nicely maybe, but the artist's wishes and answer should always be respected.
(though honestly I don't even like people asking. I always have a hard time saying no as I'm just too nice for my own good and wants everyone to be happy.. I do say no in the end, but it stresses me out to have to do so in the first place OTL )
Unmeimiru Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
I'm very familiar with this mentality. Both my Mom and I are trapped by this and it takes a major fight (most often) to say no and get the other person(s) to stick to and accept it.
DraconisKnight Featured By Owner Mar 8, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
So much sense in that.  :|  And here I was going to undersell myself...  Below what minimum wage is for my state.  All the information does make one stop and think.
furesiya Featured By Owner Mar 9, 2014
as I said.. it will probably lower the range of prospected buyers (blocking out the cheapskates looking for a steal-deal or just the people that can't afford much to begin with) but.. charge what is fair to the amount of work you are going to return to them >3<~!
Hopefully, if this sentiment is spread more.. the worth of art over all will go up and this might not be too bad of an issue anymore...
.. we can hope.
IWillFly Featured By Owner Mar 8, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
I saw a speaker once who was talking on this subject and he said something to the effect of "It might take me an hour to do this picture for you but it really takes my 20+ years of practice plus this hour."

furesiya Featured By Owner Mar 8, 2014
thats true to a certain extent o3o though I've never really thought of it that way. 8D
most of my studying is self done and for fun. But I'm sure enough people literally payed for their learning and wouldn't mind a return on that too..
I'm happy to just be compensated for my time that I put into a particular piece. There's nothing more disheartening that struggling through something and thinking the whole way: I'm only getting *insert ridiculously low amount/per hour* for this.. OTL why am I doing this again?

:iconsweethugplz: I know that feeling too.. I find myself thinking.. if I lowered prices, I would get more orders.. And honestly, that is a good tactic for building a following. But never do it because someone says 'this is too much, its not worth it'. Only do it if you still feel like you are not going OTL Why am I doing this again? Some people revel in doing art so much that they would be happy doing anything for free anyways, the money being the bonus.. most of us aren't like that though 8'D
IWillFly Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
This is late < u >

But I totally agree. The fairer the price the easier it is for the artist to want to do good and to spend time on the commissioned piece. whenIgetmoniesIdemandcommissionfromyoushhh /shot

*clings to you and keeps these words* I really have been rereading this for a while cos I was wanting to sell like I said before andand thankyou; u ;<3
furesiya Featured By Owner Apr 19, 2014
Sell, willu!! You can du eet!! <3
Unmeimiru Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
I tried my hand at sewing commissions and not only did I undersell myself (cuz I have no self confidence) I got bullied to go even lower to the point that I was losing money to make things. That was such a horrible experience that I'm still kinda traumatized and not sure if I really want to stick myself out there for commissions again. Though I have an etsy store, no one is interested in my works to want to buy something and so I don't feel like I should keep renewing listings when no one is interested. I can't even get page views on my stuff. Local friends and neighbors like my stuff but that doesn't mean they buy it.
furesiya Featured By Owner Apr 4, 2014
OTL hang in there. I wish I could say , keep trying and it will work, but I've already proven to myself with the adoptable thing that that isn't always true. I guess, instead, I'll say if its something you are suuuper passionate about , keep going, no matter what, its bound to break through eventually. Though it might take a while. (for me, and adoptables, I don't care that much 8'D so won't keep really trying.. but that's just me )
Dx33x Featured By Owner Mar 8, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Truer words never have been spoken xD;

I guess thats part of the reason I don't do commissions anymore. At least not for digital art. Copic Pics are so much faster for me, which means, selling one for 80 USD still gets me an hour wage of ~15 USD depending on details which is still pretty low.
I'd get more money working in a grocery store or as waiter around here... but it is the price that I am alright with, working on something I like while being paid money. As a side note, turned into €, 11 USD is actually the least you MAY pay someone you are hiring by law where I live.
I turned down 2 commissions already simply because I didn't like the theme and seriously, why should I force myself to work for such a low price if I could as well just go and fill up shelfs and earn more?

For digital art I'm a complete perfectionist, so into one pic I put at least 15-20 hours work... If I got 20+ USD per hour, I would be fine with putting so much effort into a piece that doesn't come 'from my heart' but that I draw for someone else, but on dA there simply IS no one willing to pay 400 USD for one piece of digital art when there are people out there that totally undersell themselves. Every artist has their very own style, but many kids don't see the difference. They see anime style and since they barely know anything about anatomy themselves don't really care about the actual skill behind as long as it looks 'badass' in the end. So yeah... dA isn't exactly the right place for hobby artists to sell their commissions if they aren't willing to undersell themselves.
furesiya Featured By Owner Mar 8, 2014
yeah... I set most of my prices at about 10$ an hour.. which I'm pretty sure is already bellow minimum wage here. OTL

DA can be a liiiiittle useful for building a name.. but even that is difficult if you aren't the top 10% doing fan art or w/e else is popular at the moment. But not much of anything to build a salary on. Or even close.
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March 8, 2014


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